Source : Facebook Discussion (selected excerpts)
Ben Abrahamson
Full quote: Sahih Bukhari Volume 4, Book 56, Number 667: Narrated 'Abdullah bin 'Amr: The Prophet (pbuh) said, "Convey (my teachings) to the people even if it were a single sentence, and tell others the stories of Bani Israel (which have been taught to you), for it is not sinful to do so. And whoever tells a lie on me intentionally, will surely take his place in the (Hell) Fire."
Ben Abrahamson .... This is not the thread for a complicated discussion in defense of the aHaddith, except for me to say that I fully defend the ahaddith and their essential role in understanding the Qur'an. I don't think it is possible to fully understand the Qur'an without the ahadith.
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Excerpts from comments and discussions in Facebook:-
Ben Abrahamson In our literature we are taught that there is common faith, a fundamental "religion" which all men are born into. There is a basic faith that is obligated on all mankind. Jews have called this yireh shomaym, ger toshav or bnei noah in Hebrew, theosebeia in greek, and according to school of Rabbi Benamozegh, this fundamental "religion" is also called by the name Islam.Ben Abrahamson
May we merit to see the coming of Mahdi (King Messiah) together, in our lifetimes.
Ghazal Omid
My dear Lord, you believe in Mahdi? truly? I am stunned, because anyone who believes in Mahdi from other faith than Islam have more respect than we as Muslims do!
There are so many things I would like to tell you when I meet with you. So many stories about your faith and mine and how close we are, and unfortunatly how blindly we seem to hate the other person becuase of its faith. If we could look deeply we believe in the same Allah (SVT)
There are so many things I would like to tell you when I meet with you. So many stories about your faith and mine and how close we are, and unfortunatly how blindly we seem to hate the other person becuase of its faith. If we could look deeply we believe in the same Allah (SVT)
Rashied Bey
Ben Abrahamson @ Ghazal: You will find your enjoyment of discourse with Ben only increases with time.
@ Ben: Good morning, and shalom 'aleichem! I invoked your name only yesterday! A friend of my daughters from their high school days had a photo holdin...g a white sheet, letting the sea breeze blow it in billows. She was telling her FB friends that to her it means surrender.
I was explaining to her about surrender, that it is the innate religion, and the meaning of "Islam" in literal, adogmatic terms. As an example of my meaning, I cited you and share the quote you shared on 1/21 that reflects the one above about the Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic and Arabic forms of the word.
You are a blessing and a joy, and my prayer is that more of our people, Ahli Kitab, bring together our hearts, insha'a Allah.
@ Ben: Good morning, and shalom 'aleichem! I invoked your name only yesterday! A friend of my daughters from their high school days had a photo holdin...g a white sheet, letting the sea breeze blow it in billows. She was telling her FB friends that to her it means surrender.
I was explaining to her about surrender, that it is the innate religion, and the meaning of "Islam" in literal, adogmatic terms. As an example of my meaning, I cited you and share the quote you shared on 1/21 that reflects the one above about the Hebrew, Greek, Aramaic and Arabic forms of the word.
You are a blessing and a joy, and my prayer is that more of our people, Ahli Kitab, bring together our hearts, insha'a Allah.
@Ghazal, Yes. Originally there was a very close relationship between proper Jews and Muslims. There were many Jewish works written during this time that talk about the Prophet (pbuh), called Midrashei Geulah. This relationship unfortuantely was brought to a violent end in 680 CE, one of the casualties of the Second Fitna.
Ghazal Omid Very true. Any ways, I am heading for my Morning Prayers. I keep you in my prayers. My our God blesses you and your family always!
Ben AbrahamsonThe rabbinic historian Rabbi Sherira Gaon (906-1006 CE) writes of the encounter between Imam Ali (as) and the head of the Babylonian Academy of Peroz-Shavur:
"Rabbi Yitzchak Gaon was in Peroz-Shavur when Ali ben Abu Taleb entered the city, a...nd Mar Yitzchak of Peroz-Shavur went out to him and welcomed him with great friendliness. At that time, there were in Peroz-Shavur ninety thousand Jews, who were received by Ali ben Abu Taleb with great friendliness." (Iggeret Sherira Gaon)
Irshad Alam there is an anachronism. Imam ali bin abutalib died somewhere around 650 CE"Rabbi Yitzchak Gaon was in Peroz-Shavur when Ali ben Abu Taleb entered the city, a...nd Mar Yitzchak of Peroz-Shavur went out to him and welcomed him with great friendliness. At that time, there were in Peroz-Shavur ninety thousand Jews, who were received by Ali ben Abu Taleb with great friendliness." (Iggeret Sherira Gaon)
Ben Abrahamson The visit described by historian Rabbi Sherira Gaon occurred around 640CE. Imam Ali bin Abutalib (as) passed away in 661 CE, according to most sources. Relations continued to be friendly until the Second Fitna, that began in 680CE. The Exilarch and the academies placed their hopes in the family of Caliph 'Ali (as). The events that followed were most tragic. Anti-Jewish feeling increased dramatically from that point on, for various reasons.
Salman Zuberi Ben...are you certain about the coming of the King Messiah or Mahdi? No such indication is given in the Quran. I personally do not believe any such personality is going to come whatsoever.
Nur Madina He will come; this is part of the aqaid of muslims, if you are not believing this then you are lacking a part of your belief.
Salman Zuberi aqaid of majority of muslims is no standard for truth. majority of people at one time believed that the earth is flat. 6:116 tells me that if i follow the majority of people on earth, i will surely go astray. I am just highlighting the fact that no mahdi, antichrist or king messiah is mentioned in the Quran and as a result, i personally do not believe in such a story.
Nur Madina What I am referring to is not a statistical matter of whether majority believe or not; the study of aqida is not based on the populations opinion; it is based on 4 souces of information: 2 jalli (major) which are the quran and sunnah and 2 khafi (minor) which are ijtihad and qias. There are many ahadith of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam stating His coming, and the description of dajjal etc; if you are denying the words of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam then it leads one to be out of the folds of islam. Allah forgive.
Salman Zuberi
thanks for providing judgement on me. first for my belief being lacking and second, being outside the fold of islam. a very traditional muslim approach.
hadith is not divine revelation and is all human work. Quran is the criteria to establis...h truth from falsehood (25:1). Quran is itself the best hadith (39:23) and Quran has prohibited all other man made hadiths (45:6, 77:50) A hadith that is not in conformity with the Quran is a baseless hadith.
It is not God who is telling you that hadith books is the word of Rasool but rather Mr. Bukhari and the likes of him. Lets make this point very clear.
hadith is not divine revelation and is all human work. Quran is the criteria to establis...h truth from falsehood (25:1). Quran is itself the best hadith (39:23) and Quran has prohibited all other man made hadiths (45:6, 77:50) A hadith that is not in conformity with the Quran is a baseless hadith.
It is not God who is telling you that hadith books is the word of Rasool but rather Mr. Bukhari and the likes of him. Lets make this point very clear.
Nur Madina Irshad Alam @Salman Your sophmorish attitude "I know it all far better than all of you Muslim scholar for the past 1500 years"-- its really amusing! LOL
I have not made a judgement on you, if so my comment would have been in second person; i have stated a fact in third person, a fact which you should take seriously. This is not my judgement, it is a basic rule of all religions, not just isl...am. A religion is a form of boundary: you believe within you will be of that religion, if you 'pick and choose' what to believe then you have made your boundary of iman vague. Allah subhanahu wa ta'ala says: udkhulu fissilmi kaaffatan [enter Islam completely]; and to enter islam completely is to believe the words of Rasoolullah sallallahu alaihi wasallam aswell as He is the messenger of Allah.
Nur Madina Imam Bukhari are a muhaddith; it is not Him (rehimahullah) who tells us to believe Prophet Muhammad; it is Allah who tells us, as Aisha Radhi Allahu anha said 'He is the walking talking Quran'
Ben Abrahamson
@Salman Zuberi, As a Jew, I am absolutely, positively, completely certain in the coming of the Mahdi (what we call King Messiah).
If you are interested, I can explain why in another thread.
From the perspective of Judaism, this teaching was listed by the great scholar Maimonides as one of the fundamental principles of our faith. We pray for his coming three times a day.
If you are interested, I can explain why in another thread.
From the perspective of Judaism, this teaching was listed by the great scholar Maimonides as one of the fundamental principles of our faith. We pray for his coming three times a day.
Bilaal Attila Nasrulla Great =SHARED=
Sohel Nadeem Rahman
Our GOD is not short of words. Nowhere in the Quran does He mention anything akin to "the Messiah won't come in end times". On the other hand He does confirm previous revelations he has sent down before the Quran. Now some elements of previ...ous revelations are superseded by the Quran ONLY when those elements are mentioned specifically. Anything outside these facts is conjecture, scholarly or not.
In that light, I believe in the prophesied coming of a Messiah (PBUH) of GOD just before the End of this Cycle who will preach the truth, who will defeat the evil forces in wars with GOD's help, and finally rule the entire world as a viceroy of GOD on earth.
In Judaism, this messenger is called Messiah. In Christianity, he is called Messiah, Son of Man, Comforter (Paraclete). In Zoroastrianism, he is known as Soashyant and Asvatreta. In Budhism, he is called Maitreya. In Islam, he is known as Mahdi, the messenger of covenant and the messenger reciting the holy scriptures.
All such names in existing God’s religions as Messiah, Son of Man, Comforter, Soashyant, Asvatreta, Maitreya, Mahdi, Messenger of Covenant, Messenger reciting the holy scriptures refer to One and the Same Person who will be sent in the End Times before the end of world and the start of Resurrection.
GOD knows best and may He forgive my inadvertent error and insolence. A part of Taqwa and Iman is acknowledging the great mystery outside our consciousness. Anyway, one may wish to consult the following.
Bible :
Psalms 2:1-6, 8,9. 110:1-7
Isaiah 11:1-5, 41:2-6, 42:1-7, 46:10,11
Daniel 2:44, 7:13,14,27
Haggai 2:6,7
Zachariah 9:9,10
Malachi 3:1,2
Mathew 24:29-31. 25:31-33
Mark 13:24-27
Luke 21:25-27
John : 14:16,17,26
Revelations : 11:15
Qur’an :
3:81,82
19:27-33
61:6
98:1,2
In that light, I believe in the prophesied coming of a Messiah (PBUH) of GOD just before the End of this Cycle who will preach the truth, who will defeat the evil forces in wars with GOD's help, and finally rule the entire world as a viceroy of GOD on earth.
In Judaism, this messenger is called Messiah. In Christianity, he is called Messiah, Son of Man, Comforter (Paraclete). In Zoroastrianism, he is known as Soashyant and Asvatreta. In Budhism, he is called Maitreya. In Islam, he is known as Mahdi, the messenger of covenant and the messenger reciting the holy scriptures.
All such names in existing God’s religions as Messiah, Son of Man, Comforter, Soashyant, Asvatreta, Maitreya, Mahdi, Messenger of Covenant, Messenger reciting the holy scriptures refer to One and the Same Person who will be sent in the End Times before the end of world and the start of Resurrection.
GOD knows best and may He forgive my inadvertent error and insolence. A part of Taqwa and Iman is acknowledging the great mystery outside our consciousness. Anyway, one may wish to consult the following.
Bible :
Psalms 2:1-6, 8,9. 110:1-7
Isaiah 11:1-5, 41:2-6, 42:1-7, 46:10,11
Daniel 2:44, 7:13,14,27
Haggai 2:6,7
Zachariah 9:9,10
Malachi 3:1,2
Mathew 24:29-31. 25:31-33
Mark 13:24-27
Luke 21:25-27
John : 14:16,17,26
Revelations : 11:15
Qur’an :
3:81,82
19:27-33
61:6
98:1,2
Sohel Nadeem Rahman Arifana Hamid Amidah Amahdi
I am a Muslim and if i dont believe in Torah i dont believe in Quran, Quran tells me Torah is a book of right hand, a law, a covenant, a book of Moses where 5 books are the five fingers of right hand, and the number of covenant is 18 on the palm, but always right hand because it is book of right hand ,left hand book dont read 18 but 81. So I find this Story of Torah about Bani Israel a blessing to know of, and i wish world could really see the Book of Moses with their very own eyes, an ARC that contains a covenant of each and every religions and creation and that too always same , 18! It is really amazing to notice that only four fingers have golden ratio 16:18 just as the 4 out of five books have chapter numbered 16:18, Genesis is missing this ratio, but the palm covers for that missing 18. Of the two thumbs we have only the on in right hand explain the rule of right hand law in electro magnetics of UNiverse as only law! I find Torah just as beautiful as Quran because to me they are words of one and same beloved Lord Almighty, amzingly wise and beautifully enlightening! So back to Torah, the sotry of Bani Israel about Torah ends with a machine they built, known as Arc of covenant, and knowledge and wisdom of the reality of Torah was part of that machine's building ingredients. As time went by, machine was all that was left of the wisdom of Torah, and as time went by so was the machine which reflected the true Torah light and understanding was too lost or destroyed and began second exodus untill today. I did though find a machine recovers in 1901 called Anti-Kythera, my personal view is that it is the very machine that reflects the Torah of right hand to fullest understanding of the mystery behind Eclipses and the last prophet of Deuteronomy 18 18 who pointed to eclipse as one of the Signs given to him in Quran. I cant find better understanding of this Miracle unless i accept that the law we know as Saros cycle is the Torah law which is not a miracle of olds, but a literal deuteronomy(repetition) of law digitally locked with 18 as fixed ratio. No matter the why the most mentioned Prophet in Quran is Prophet Moses, who personally recieved this understanding and wisdom of Torah law inscription of 18 on his right hand and binded his nation in a covenant numbered 18 too, as is for Christians known as 18 Bendictions! Torah taught me to look for the hand of covenant and when i did i found the exact number of covenants written soon as i started to look for an /\ or an ARC, i was struck with the 8 as an answer. Torah story is my favourite story, for none other than A1God himself related about it to Moses by asking him about what was in the right hand of Moses, but then Moses did not know, so he thought he was being asked of the staff he was holding in his hand, but when he returned he had learnt of the that which was in his right hand, the Torah(1^8)!
Also, allow me to suggest with utmost humility that we maintain Adab, and respond rather than react to whatever is being posted here. The thinly veiled ad hominem attacks are quite unbecoming in my humble opinion.
Always Respond to a 'Greet...ing':
"When greeted with a greeting, you shall respond with a better greeting or at least an equal one. GOD reckons all things." (4:86)
"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art not a believer!"..." (4:94)
Always Say 'Good' things:
"Do you not see that GOD has cited the example of a good word as a good tree whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches are high in the sky. It produces its crop every season, as designed by its Lord. GOD thus cites the examples for the people, that they may take heed." (14:24-25)
Be 'Humble', and speak 'Lightly':
"Walk humbly and lower your voice, the ugliest voice is the donkey's voice." (31:19)
Invite to GOD with wisdom and kindness:
"Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones." (16:125)
"It was mercy from GOD that you became compassionate towards them. Had you been harsh and mean-hearted, they would have abandoned you. Therefore, you shall pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them. Once you make a decision, carry out your plan, and trust in GOD. GOD loves those who trust in Him." (3:159)
Be Kind to your parents:
"Your Lord has decreed that you shall not worship except Him, and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, "Uff" (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably. And lower for them the wings of humility, and kindness, and say, "My Lord, have mercy on them, for they have raised me from infancy." (17:23-24)
Suppress Anger & Forgive People:
"who (the righteous) give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable." (3:134)
Counter Evil with Good:
"Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend." (41:34)
"They steadfastly persevere in seeking their Lord, observe the Link (Salat), spend from our provisions to them secretly and publicly, and counter evil with good. These have deserved the best abode." (13:22)
Do NOT Say 'Bad' things:
"And the example of the bad word is that of a bad tree chopped at the soil level; it has no roots to keep it firm." (14:26)
Do NOT be 'Arrogant' or 'Carefree':
"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs." (31:18)
Do NOT engage in 'ignorant' talk:
"The servants of the Almighty are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace." (25:63)
Do NOT Curse the Idolaters:
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (6:108)
Do NOT make fun of others, or call them names:
"O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors." (49:11)
Do NOT be suspicious, or spy on one another, or backbite:
"O you who believe, if a wicked person brings any news to you, you shall first investigate, lest you commit injustice towards some people, out of ignorance, then become sorry and remorseful for what you have done." (49:6)
"O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful." (49:12)
Do NOT be 'Racist':
"O people, We created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant." (49:13)
Peace & GOD bless~
Always Respond to a 'Greet...ing':
"When greeted with a greeting, you shall respond with a better greeting or at least an equal one. GOD reckons all things." (4:86)
"O ye who believe! When ye go abroad in the cause of Allah, investigate carefully, and say not to any one who offers you a salutation: "Thou art not a believer!"..." (4:94)
Always Say 'Good' things:
"Do you not see that GOD has cited the example of a good word as a good tree whose root is firmly fixed, and its branches are high in the sky. It produces its crop every season, as designed by its Lord. GOD thus cites the examples for the people, that they may take heed." (14:24-25)
Be 'Humble', and speak 'Lightly':
"Walk humbly and lower your voice, the ugliest voice is the donkey's voice." (31:19)
Invite to GOD with wisdom and kindness:
"Invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones." (16:125)
"It was mercy from GOD that you became compassionate towards them. Had you been harsh and mean-hearted, they would have abandoned you. Therefore, you shall pardon them and ask forgiveness for them, and consult them. Once you make a decision, carry out your plan, and trust in GOD. GOD loves those who trust in Him." (3:159)
Be Kind to your parents:
"Your Lord has decreed that you shall not worship except Him, and your parents shall be honored. As long as one or both of them live, you shall never say to them, "Uff" (the slightest gesture of annoyance), nor shall you shout at them; you shall treat them amicably. And lower for them the wings of humility, and kindness, and say, "My Lord, have mercy on them, for they have raised me from infancy." (17:23-24)
Suppress Anger & Forgive People:
"who (the righteous) give to charity during the good times, as well as the bad times. They are suppressors of anger, and pardoners of the people. GOD loves the charitable." (3:134)
Counter Evil with Good:
"Not equal is the good response and the bad response. You shall resort to the nicest possible response. Thus, the one who used to be your enemy, may become your best friend." (41:34)
"They steadfastly persevere in seeking their Lord, observe the Link (Salat), spend from our provisions to them secretly and publicly, and counter evil with good. These have deserved the best abode." (13:22)
Do NOT Say 'Bad' things:
"And the example of the bad word is that of a bad tree chopped at the soil level; it has no roots to keep it firm." (14:26)
Do NOT be 'Arrogant' or 'Carefree':
"You shall not treat the people with arrogance, nor shall you roam the earth carefree. GOD does not like the arrogant showoffs." (31:18)
Do NOT engage in 'ignorant' talk:
"The servants of the Almighty are those who tread the earth gently, and when the ignorant speak to them, they only utter peace." (25:63)
Do NOT Curse the Idolaters:
"And do not curse those who call on other than GOD, lest they blaspheme and curse GOD, out of ignorance. We have adorned the works of every group in their eyes. Ultimately, they return to their Lord, then He informs them of everything they had done." (6:108)
Do NOT make fun of others, or call them names:
"O you who believe, no people shall ridicule other people, for they may be better than they. Nor shall any women ridicule other women, for they may be better than they. Nor shall you mock one another, or call each other names. Evil indeed is the reversion to wickedness after attaining faith. Anyone who does not repent after this, these are the transgressors." (49:11)
Do NOT be suspicious, or spy on one another, or backbite:
"O you who believe, if a wicked person brings any news to you, you shall first investigate, lest you commit injustice towards some people, out of ignorance, then become sorry and remorseful for what you have done." (49:6)
"O you who believe, you shall avoid any suspicion, for even a little bit of suspicion is sinful. You shall not spy on one another, nor shall you backbite one another; this is as abominable as eating the flesh of your dead brother. You certainly abhor this. You shall observe GOD. GOD is Redeemer, Most Merciful." (49:12)
Do NOT be 'Racist':
"O people, We created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant." (49:13)
Peace & GOD bless~
I know a story of Bani Israel that i love very much. it is about the book A1lah A1mighty inscribed on the right hand of Moses, a digital book based on two digits, 18! A book that binded Bani Israel which is rehearsed even today every Saturday in form of 18 standing prayers, the Amidah or the Hamd (praise) as we know! It was a magnificent book that explained the laws of Universe as proof of A1GOD beside whom there is no other who can make a law. Thus Bani Israel were prefered over the rest of Creation and given the charge of making laws based on inner intuition of justice and equality as mentioned in Devarim 16:18 (deuteronomy) under instructions from Prophet Musa alehim al Salaam and those who followed him as priests. It was a book of right hand and the very right hand is what turned the staff of Moses into serpent and split the seas. It is a book of all books that was also inscribed in the right hand of Esa son of Marry and when he touched some one with right hand they were cured and brought back to life by leave of one who sent the book and its wisdom to H1s servants. The very same book in the right hand of Prophet Muhammad is what made the moon Split, and i relate it to being the number 18 of Torah since Sun and Moon are united only every 18 years to Eclipse(split) Totally. To my amazement and excitement it added further to learn that the very 18 which appears on each right hand as a divine inscription of 18 covenants of Torah law, i notice that even the Golden Ratio shines forth the Golden Torah numbers 18 in 16:18 ratio according to Modern Science and EXODUS 16:18 speaks very clearly of this Ratio for Golden Manna as an Omer (age) too.
I am a Muslim and if i dont believe in Torah i dont believe in Quran, Quran tells me Torah is a book of right hand, a law, a covenant, a book of Moses where 5 books are the five fingers of right hand, and the number of covenant is 18 on the palm, but always right hand because it is book of right hand ,left hand book dont read 18 but 81. So I find this Story of Torah about Bani Israel a blessing to know of, and i wish world could really see the Book of Moses with their very own eyes, an ARC that contains a covenant of each and every religions and creation and that too always same , 18! It is really amazing to notice that only four fingers have golden ratio 16:18 just as the 4 out of five books have chapter numbered 16:18, Genesis is missing this ratio, but the palm covers for that missing 18. Of the two thumbs we have only the on in right hand explain the rule of right hand law in electro magnetics of UNiverse as only law! I find Torah just as beautiful as Quran because to me they are words of one and same beloved Lord Almighty, amzingly wise and beautifully enlightening! So back to Torah, the sotry of Bani Israel about Torah ends with a machine they built, known as Arc of covenant, and knowledge and wisdom of the reality of Torah was part of that machine's building ingredients. As time went by, machine was all that was left of the wisdom of Torah, and as time went by so was the machine which reflected the true Torah light and understanding was too lost or destroyed and began second exodus untill today. I did though find a machine recovers in 1901 called Anti-Kythera, my personal view is that it is the very machine that reflects the Torah of right hand to fullest understanding of the mystery behind Eclipses and the last prophet of Deuteronomy 18 18 who pointed to eclipse as one of the Signs given to him in Quran. I cant find better understanding of this Miracle unless i accept that the law we know as Saros cycle is the Torah law which is not a miracle of olds, but a literal deuteronomy(repetition) of law digitally locked with 18 as fixed ratio. No matter the why the most mentioned Prophet in Quran is Prophet Moses, who personally recieved this understanding and wisdom of Torah law inscription of 18 on his right hand and binded his nation in a covenant numbered 18 too, as is for Christians known as 18 Bendictions! Torah taught me to look for the hand of covenant and when i did i found the exact number of covenants written soon as i started to look for an /\ or an ARC, i was struck with the 8 as an answer. Torah story is my favourite story, for none other than A1God himself related about it to Moses by asking him about what was in the right hand of Moses, but then Moses did not know, so he thought he was being asked of the staff he was holding in his hand, but when he returned he had learnt of the that which was in his right hand, the Torah(1^8)!
Salman Zuberi
Ben...you have the right to your opinion and i respect the difference of opinion among us. The point i am making is that one should not attribute something to a prophet of God just because it is written in a man made book. Quran is the utte...red word of the Prophet and nowhere the prophet uttered the words that a messiah is coming. As a result, this belief is unislamic, regardless of how many muslims want to go to war over this. It is not in the Quran....plain and simple.
If hadith books were the word of the prophet, they would have been preserved just like the Quran. Since God did not protect them them, we find them full of inconsistencies, contradictions and fairy tales. The reason why such books were written is given in 6:112 and its impact in 25:30 and 12:106
Lastly, majority of sholars being unified on one opinion and understanding is no criteria for anything. All religions propagate this idea and gullible masses buy into it. I dont....because majority is not the authority (6:116) and religious monks and scholars mostly misguide people (9:31).
If hadith books were the word of the prophet, they would have been preserved just like the Quran. Since God did not protect them them, we find them full of inconsistencies, contradictions and fairy tales. The reason why such books were written is given in 6:112 and its impact in 25:30 and 12:106
Lastly, majority of sholars being unified on one opinion and understanding is no criteria for anything. All religions propagate this idea and gullible masses buy into it. I dont....because majority is not the authority (6:116) and religious monks and scholars mostly misguide people (9:31).
Yassiah Yasser @ Sohel. Thanks for acceptance. I apst fully agree with you. One question for you or any one else. In Quran Allah has mentioned so much about people of Moses(as)and I assume that it is to set as example for us. My question is after Moses (as) had brought law for his people but still thousands of prophets came to Israelites until Jesus son of Mary came. Why there is no prophet after prophet Mohammad (saws)?
Ben Abrahamson
@Salman, This is not the thread for a complicated discussion in defense of the aHaddith, except for me to say that I fully defend the ahaddith and their essential role in understanding the Qur'an. I don't think it is possible to fully understand the Qur'an without the ahadith.
For example, we do not believe that Allah SWT revealed the Torah to Moses (pbuh) and then left him to figure out what it meant. Surely Moses (pbuh) was revealed not only the written text, but also the understanding of how that text should be applied in all future situations.
Passing on "understanding" is not the same as passing on written words. People understand things differently, because they must apply the teachings in different ways. These "understandings" may even appear to contradict each other, when in reality they only lack proper context. When a student learns from a teacher, the tone of voice, the gestures of the hand, all help to transmit "understanding" of the text,
Also, as Sohel said, the Qur'an came to complete missing elements of the Torah and Ingel, and in the Torah the prophets were quite clear in their description of the Messiah and the accompanying Golden Age.
I don't think anyone is being duped, and how could this be if there are literally hundreds of texts in agreement between Islam and Judaism, religions that haven't spoken to each other for hundreds of years?
In Islam there is a promise that Allah SWT will not let the consensus of Muslim agree to a falsehood. In Judaism we have the same teaching.
You asked me if I am certain, and this is attempt to explain in a few words, why I am certain. If you want to know more, I can try to explain more fully, insha'Allah.
For example, we do not believe that Allah SWT revealed the Torah to Moses (pbuh) and then left him to figure out what it meant. Surely Moses (pbuh) was revealed not only the written text, but also the understanding of how that text should be applied in all future situations.
Passing on "understanding" is not the same as passing on written words. People understand things differently, because they must apply the teachings in different ways. These "understandings" may even appear to contradict each other, when in reality they only lack proper context. When a student learns from a teacher, the tone of voice, the gestures of the hand, all help to transmit "understanding" of the text,
Also, as Sohel said, the Qur'an came to complete missing elements of the Torah and Ingel, and in the Torah the prophets were quite clear in their description of the Messiah and the accompanying Golden Age.
I don't think anyone is being duped, and how could this be if there are literally hundreds of texts in agreement between Islam and Judaism, religions that haven't spoken to each other for hundreds of years?
In Islam there is a promise that Allah SWT will not let the consensus of Muslim agree to a falsehood. In Judaism we have the same teaching.
You asked me if I am certain, and this is attempt to explain in a few words, why I am certain. If you want to know more, I can try to explain more fully, insha'Allah.
